uccnc 3d printer?

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uccnc 3d printer?

Postby Robertspark » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:24 pm

Any suggestions on how to go about setting up a 3d printer to use uccnc?

I've come into my a creality CR10s printer without a control box :cry: .

I've not got a problem controlling the steppers (XYZ), and I understand the E axis.

I understand the 3d plugin, with its retact etc.

What I'm just wondering about is the extruder temperature and the heated bed.

The heated bed seems to be set and forget, however, with regards to the extruder, I was wondering if there was any advanced control algorithms that cnc users may employ such as feedback from the extruder thermocouple which could interlock similarly with the ArcOK signal to inhibit motion until the extruder was up to temperature, and maybe a means to control the extruder temperature.

Anybody got any setup suggestions for 3d printing + uccnc + uc300eth?

I am guessing with a bit of thought it may be possible with an arduino type MCU as a temperature controller and thermocouple sensor for the extruder + bed could be built which incorporates modbus for setting + reading the temperatures from a uccnc screen.

I am not a 3d printer guy..... so any experts out there.... what am I missing?
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby Robertspark » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:51 pm

Would it be possible to use the 2x analogue inputs to read ntc thermistors (100k@25)?

What is the sensitivity of the analogue inputs to be able to read ntcs?

...... Answered my own question....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=168&hilit=Analogue+input&start=10#p1031
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby A_Camera » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:42 am

Hi Rob,

I had some plans on using UCCNC as 3D printer controller as well as combining my CNC to be used as 3D printer also, but abandoned both ideas after some considerations and discussions here and on CNCZone. I bought all the parts necessary for the conversion and made some fake 3D prints plus done some research about 3D printing and then realized that UCCNC is not the best option. Can be done with it, but there are far too many limitations, so in my opinion, not worth the trouble.

...Sorry Balázs... for this comment, but now a year after I started with using a 3D printer, I am convinced even more that this is the case. I think UCCNC is excellent for what it is been designed for, but the 3D printer plugin is far too primitive to be usable as a 3D printer. I am glad StoneyCNC was not very communicative when I tried to contact them about their 3D printer head, because if they were then I would have probably bought their expensive product and would now be stuck with it, for no use.

Anyway, back to your subject, some of the reasons I don't think UCCNC is suitable for 3D printer is the lack of PID control for the heaters. You are wrong that the bed only needs to be set to a temperature and forget about it... no, it is not that simple, in fact it needs to be as well controlled as the extruder, or at least to have some sort of separate PID temperature controller. Beware of eBay controllers. I have a few with display and and while they are very good and capable of controlling heaters and coolers for room temperature, they are NOT capable of accurately controlling the bed or the extruder, because the PID algorithm is fixed and not tunable, so the temperature variation is too large for 3D printer use. Perhaps you can find something else on the market, but personally if you want to go ahead I think it would be better to use an Arduino UNO, white the code (or find it somewhere on the Internet) and use that as a temperature controller. It has five analogue inputs (can be used as digital in/outputs as well) and 14 digital in/outputs, which should be enough for the purpose.

But there are other issues as well with regard to using UCCNC as 3D printer. The fans, at least one, must be PWM controlled. Perhaps that can be fixed with UCCNC, but the RPM regulation should be handled by the G-code, I don't know if that is possible.

The next issue is file compatibility. 3D software use stl file format for slicing and generates G and M codes from that. Is UCCNC capable of handling all G/M codes? I don't think so. Also, the inability to run the printer without a PC, only using SD card, is not possible with UCCNC.

In my opinion, a cheap Arduino Mega based board, dedicated to 3D printing with LCD and SD card support is a much better solution. Admittedly, the Mega has some limitations as well (for example speed) but together with Marlin it provides excellent 3D printer abilities.

Not directly related to your questions, but perhaps you are interested to see my progress with my current 3D printer build.



It is not very far from ready, but due to the summer and some other projects, I took a pause. Also, my first 3D printer is working well enough, so the need for this one is not that high and building it just for fun. It will also use the same GT2560 board I am using in the currently working one. I find that solution very reliable, even regarding the USB connection. Never had a USB connection failure caused break down, which was not very uncommon with the UC300USB... so this is another advantage. As I mentioned, the 2560 microcontroller has some limitations, it is only an 8-bit 16MHz controller, and the steppers hit maximum speed due to that limitation long before I encounter mechanical limits or stepper motor limits. Anyway, once I am ready I will probably go for an upgrade to an Arduino Due which has a 32-bits 84MHz based ARM microcontroller... but that's in the future.

Anyway, sorry if this is not the answer you wanted to hear.
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby A_Camera » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:52 am

With the above said...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uziLAUWqMBHrXxZhYnQ-RFtZWPY5PT18/view

This printer is controlled by UCCNC, so it is possible to do it. The printer was shown on a CNC fair in Hungary last weekend and it seems to work, though I was not there, so I have no idea how well it is working. Perhaps you can get in touch with the builders.

Here is a picture of the printer, which I think is a very nice one.

https://forum.hobbycnc.hu/uploaded_imag ... 4_6188.jpg
Last edited by A_Camera on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby Robertspark » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 am

A_Camera wrote:Anyway, sorry if this is not the answer you wanted to hear.


No, that is a great answer, thanks very much for taking the time to post, I'll have a look at your build shortly.

yes I can agree that the temperature control does seem to need to be more precise than set & forget which is what seems to have been the approach with other CNC XYZ table conversions to 3d printer adaptions using simple interfaces.

One of the "recommended" fixes for the heated bed seems to have been the use of a 220v heated bed (which provides much higher output {750w}, allows for a smaller dedicated power supply for the 3d printer controller. The knock on effect of this seems to be that most are controlling the mains powered heated bed via a SSR which is controlled via bang-bang control algorithm relative to the setpoint + sensor. If you give the bed some thermal mass, and allow the bed temperature to stabilize for some time after the initial heatup it should be possible to still use the bang-bang control just with shorter pulse duration's to emulate PWM control for the heated bed {plus adding the printer to an enclosure..... as mine will be in an unheated {when not in use} big garage}.

Yes, I saw that clip of the cnc fair, the catch was if you look at the PC screen its not displaying the 3d printer..... so I wasn't sure if it was "actually" uccnc controlled (I'll have another look at the clip)
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby Robertspark » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:57 am

Its early days for me in the world of 3d printing {much to learn.....} still sifting fact from fiction ....
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:27 pm
Location: Nr Liverpool, England

Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby A_Camera » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:13 am

Robertspark wrote:
A_Camera wrote:Anyway, sorry if this is not the answer you wanted to hear.


No, that is a great answer, thanks very much for taking the time to post, I'll have a look at your build shortly.

yes I can agree that the temperature control does seem to need to be more precise than set & forget which is what seems to have been the approach with other CNC XYZ table conversions to 3d printer adaptions using simple interfaces.

One of the "recommended" fixes for the heated bed seems to have been the use of a 220v heated bed (which provides much higher output {750w}, allows for a smaller dedicated power supply for the 3d printer controller. The knock on effect of this seems to be that most are controlling the mains powered heated bed via a SSR which is controlled via bang-bang control algorithm relative to the setpoint + sensor. If you give the bed some thermal mass, and allow the bed temperature to stabilize for some time after the initial heatup it should be possible to still use the bang-bang control just with shorter pulse duration's to emulate PWM control for the heated bed {plus adding the printer to an enclosure..... as mine will be in an unheated {when not in use} big garage}.

Yes, I saw that clip of the cnc fair, the catch was if you look at the PC screen its not displaying the 3d printer..... so I wasn't sure if it was "actually" uccnc controlled (I'll have another look at the clip)

Yes, some people use 230V beds, but personally I am not in favour of that, due to the very high risks involved in DIY printers. I would be scared to use high voltage and the power is in my opinion far too high. The only advantage I see is the very short heat up time, but since 3D printers are high time consumers when printing, I don't care about the very short start up time, can wait a few minutes. Anyway, using 230V means high risks and much higher safety standards then what I am comfortable with in my printers, so in my opinion not worth the trouble. The PSU I am using is well isolated from the rest of the world, and I am running a 36V (24 +12) cable to my printers, not using the PSU as delivered from China for the same, safety reasons.

Yes, bang-bang control is possible, but again, PID is better, more accurate and Marlin has a well working algorithm for that, for three heaters, so I could actually add a second extruder as well with a separate heater element.

You are right about the video... maybe I have been fooled by the UCCNC screen, I don't know. I planned to visit that fair but I had to go on a different trip to another location (Brussels), which was not hobby, but job related... :cry: too bad, because it seems to have been an interesting fair. Well... maybe next year.
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby dezsoe » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:17 am

I asked the builder of that 3d printer and he said, it is not controlled by UCCNC, but the standard ATMega based board.
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby A_Camera » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:23 am

Robertspark wrote:Its early days for me in the world of 3d printing {much to learn.....} still sifting fact from fiction ....

Early days for me as well... considering some other experts in the area. Anyway, it is fun, more fun then I thought from the start. In case you are interested, I am using FreeCAD for the designs, Slicr3r for slicing and Repetier for printing and for generating the G-code for SD-card printing and of course, Marlin. In fact, I even pay for those freeware because I think that the guys actually working with those are well worth some support from me, even though I am not using my printer commercially. It is amazing what those software are capable of doing... and all for free, no obligations for paying, everybody gets the same support and the support is excellent, the community is huge and people are very active in the area.
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Re: uccnc 3d printer?

Postby A_Camera » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:24 am

dezsoe wrote:I asked the builder of that 3d printer and he said, it is not controlled by UCCNC, but the standard ATMega based board.

Thanks. You beat me, I planned to ask also, now that we are discussing it. :D
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