Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

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Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby pupdogg » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:37 pm

I recently got my hands on a very nice HSD 9HP ATC Spindle and Delta VFD-B (model VFD075B43A) combo gutted out of an old Thermwood CNC Router. I have the AC wiring all set and can run the spindle via the VFD keypad. However, I need someone to advise how I go about hooking up this VFD to UB1. The Thermwood CNC used the DRAWBAR to RELEASING/LOCKING the tool and had independent FWD & REV soft buttons. Based on Delta VFD-B connection diagram (also attached), I can see that RC & RA connection (NO) were somehow used to trigger a pneumatic solenoid ON/OFF for the tool changing. Pls see attached image of the VFD PCB showing how the wire-harness from Thermwood CNC was labeled/terminated. In case it's hard to see or read in the attached image, here are the VFD Terminal/wire color details for this harness:

Code: Select all
VFD_Input          Wire_Color          Wire_Label
---------          ----------          ---------
RA                 Green               DRAWBAR
RC                 Red                 24+
ACM                White               PWM_GND
AVI                Gray                PWM_0-10V
REV                Yellow              P4_CCW
FWD                Blue                P3_CW
DCM                Brown               DCM_VFD

Note: PINK wire is not used

Now, my question is how do I go about wiring this up to UB1? I want to be able to accomplish the following:
    1. Start the spindle CW or CCW with a given speed or a default start speed?
    2. Stop the spindle
    3. Manually Release/Lock the tool...of course, this would be a back to ATC

Based on UB1 manual, this is what I think the wiring needs to be...but would love your confirmation. Also, wiring below does not include the tool release/lock capability...any and all suggestions are welcomed!
Code: Select all
UB1_Port          VFD_Input       Wire_Label
--------          ---------       -----------
AO1               AVI             PWM_0-10V
AL1               ACM             PWM_GND
NO1               FWD             P3_CW
NO2               REV             P4_CCW
CM1, CM2          DCM             DCM_VFD

Thank you in advance!
Attachments
SS_20190608_27.jpg
Delta VFD-B Wiring Diagram
SS_20190608_26.jpg
Delta VFD-B PCB
Paul Davis
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby ger21 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:28 pm

You also need to supply 10V to the UB1 from the +10V.

I don't have time to look closely, but it looks OK.
Gerry
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby pupdogg » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:37 pm

Hi Gerry, thank you for the prompt response. So going the +10V from VFD to UB1-AH1 is definitely a viable option. If I go this route, do I still need to set PWM port/pin to Y0401?

Looking a little more into UB1 manual, it states that AO1 (Analog Output 1) can be converted to PWM1 using a solder-bridge...since the Thermwood setup also did not use the +10V terminal on VFD, would going this route generate a sufficient PWM from within the UB1/ETH3000 circuitry to avoid having the need for an external +10V? If yes, does my wiring still hold true and I would still set the PWM port/pin to Y0401?
Paul Davis
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby ger21 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:42 pm

The Thermwood was probably getting the 10V from somewhere else.

The control voltage from AO1 requires 10V into AH1. If you don't supply AH1 with power, you won't get any speed control.

Yes, you use Y401.
You'd need to see if your drive accepts a PWM signal for speed control. It doesn't look like it. If the Thermwood was using AVI, then it was using 0-10V analog control.
Gerry
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby pupdogg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:36 am

Good deal! I got the sucker running CW and CCW with your suggested wiring!! Now onto the next problem...SPEED. Pls see attached picture of the HSD plate. The VFD Max. Output Freq and Max Voltage Freq are both set to 300...based on that, I also set the UCCNC PWM Frequency at 300Hz, with 0 duty min, 100 duty Max. Also, UCCNC Spindle min is set to 12000 and Max RO 24000. When Issue M3 S12000, the VFD reads 178Hz (which is wrong and should be 150Hz) and when I send M3 S24000, it reads 300Hz (which is correct). What’s the culprit here? Any ideas?

As for wiring of the VFD, I have a 30A 3P din rail breaker going into a 24V contractor driven by a ON/OFF switch...this is very similar to how Thermwood had it connected. Everything seems fine when I turn the spindle side of the system ON but when I shut it down, the VFD blinks LV right before it turns OFF. I never recorded or visualized this behavior when it was connected to Thermwood controls so I’m not sure what to expect. Does anyone have any other/proper procedures for a VFD shutdown? And yes, I am making sure that the spindle is completely steady and not spinning when I power the VFD down.
Attachments
5E5D1313-51E0-474E-8AF4-EF1698A98657.jpeg
HSD Plate
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby ger21 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 am

1) Set the PWM frequency back to the default of 200Hz. This has nothing to do with the VFD settings. It's the frequency of the PWM signal going to the UB1.

2) If the VFD max is 300Khz, then your max RPM will be 18,000.

12000 RPM should be 200Khz. The discrepancy you are seeing is likely due to the voltage drop in the UB1 speed control. Measure the voltage at the AVI terminal when you command 12000 rpm. It should be about 6.66V.

If it's lower, you may need to use a 12V power supply instead of the 10V from the VFD. Unless the VFD has the ability to increase the voltage from the 10V terminal. While your at it, check the voltage coming from the 10V terminal itself. The max voltage the UB1 can output is 0.2V less than what's input into it.


I think the LV message is normal as it's powering down. On the big Italian routers I've used, the VFD is wired into the main power disconnect. The VFD comes on when you turn on the machine, and stays on until you turn it off.
Gerry
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby Dan911 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:27 pm

Hey pupdogg,

Nice spindle/VFD combo, been keeping my eyes open/searching for something similar.

Just curious why you have VFD set to a max 300hz, quick google search of model shows it's max at 400hz, same as spindle?

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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby pupdogg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:25 pm

Gerry, thank you again! I will try those settings out and post my feedback. I was thinking the same thing that there was either 1) some kind of voltage drop or 2) interference from the 480VAC lines.

@Dan911: thank you sir! 300Hz is the original setting that was pre-configured in the VFD when I picked up the working machine. I will most likely tinker with it a bit more and see which settings work the best for my setup. On an interesting note: I was able to pick up the entire CNC Router from a nearby auction for approx $400. The original bid started at $50k until no one seemed interested and it was down to $400...and I thought to myself what the heck? I think just the tooling alone is worth 3x or 5x that amount. Rest is history now :D See attached pix for your pleasure!
Attachments
Anvrzts.jpg
OsTSp1G.jpg
MpuAtBW.jpg
Paul Davis
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby pupdogg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:09 pm

@Gerry: attached you will find my spindle settings screenshot. Based on your message, I get that the VFD being set to 300Hz was a manufacturer decision to drive the spindle at 18,000 RPM MAX (even though it can go upto 24,000 RPM). That being said, I tried to set the UCCNC PWM to 200Hz (as per your suggestion) and spindle velocity min. @ 30RPM, max. @ 18,000RPM...I get 233.30Hz reading on the VFD. As for VDC, I am measuring 6.76V between VFD terminals AVI (pwm) and ACM (common). If I do the math, 6.76V should be yielding a (6.76V / 10V) * 300Hz = 202.8Hz reading on the VFD display...even if I make up the 0.2V loss, that should yield (6.76V+0.2V / 10V) * 300Hz = 208.8Hz.

Note: Spindle Velocity min. @ 30RPM was calculated from VFD's Minimum Output Freq settings (Pr.01-05) which was set to factory default of 0.5Hz. Math: (0.5/300)Hz * 18000RPM = 30RPM
Attachments
SS_20190609_1.png
Paul Davis
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Re: Wiring Help - UB1 to Delta VFD-B running HSD 9HP ATC

Postby ger21 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:15 pm

I looked at the UB1 manual, and it calls for the PWM frequency to be 1524Hz.
Try that instead of 200Hz, and see if it helps.

The min and max rpm settings should have no effect on the speed you are getting. They are just limits that the software won't let you exceed.
For instance, if your min was 8000 rpm, and you called S6000, it will run at 8000.
Any reason why you have it set to 30rpm? I wouldn't expect it to have any power at that speed.
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